S&W Performance Center 929

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stokesrj
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S&W Performance Center 929

Post by stokesrj »

You would expect that a handgun that costs over a grand and comes from the Performance Center would have a truly great trigger. Well, it does have a good trigger, but not nearly good enough for me to do my best shooting with it. So, can you guess what I'm doing today?
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Robert J Stokes

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chalky
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Re: S&W Performance Center 929

Post by chalky »

Looks to me like you'll be putting a jig saw back together :D:D

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Re: S&W Performance Center 929

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Got it smoothed out, tuned up, and put back together.
The target was shot at 50 feet double action, two hand hold.
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Re: S&W Performance Center 929

Post by thechamp »

Do you use a stone to polish the insides and the moving parts? Have had a few 66s, 686s and 29s apart years back but hadn't seen a 929 torn down. Looks like they have more pieces than they used to. Then again it's been many years, probably 20+ since I fooled with revolvers. The 629 I had from the performance center a few years back seemed to be pretty good but it was used already so no telling if it had been improved or just worn smooth.

Nice group at 50 feet essentially free handed. Have you shot any groups with them at 25 yards off a rest by chance? Curious how good she'd do at that range.

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Re: S&W Performance Center 929

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Yea from a rest at 25 yards it shoots 3/4" with my best hand load, using a Hornady 147 grain XTP and will shoot about 1.5" with Winchester white box 115 grain FMJs and about 5" with Remington UMC 115 train JHP's just awful. But it is a speed gun, made for shooting really fast double action. Jerry McCulek can shoot it much faster than me, or anyone else for that matter
[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FaVaaf7I4l4[/video]
And here is Jerry shooting a ballon at 1,000 yards with the same accuracy load I shoot.
[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJ3XwizTqDw[/video]
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Re: S&W Performance Center 929

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3/4" with a handgun is very good. From what I recall 1.5" was considered to be about as good as you could ever expect from a handgun. Now again that's dated back a long time. Do know though that there were some good handguns built back in the day. Had a nickel Python that was unbelievably accurate. Switched to S&W soon after the stainless 66 came out. No regrets, all were good and accurate and got the job done.

I recall when the Walther P88 came out one of the gun magazines did a shooting test matching the top semi-autos of the day and it won going away. Thinking it was around 1-1.5" with factory ammo. That was either 25 or 50 yards. That was all I needed to know.

Was at the department the other day taking a range class for our yearly qualifications. This allows us to carry as retired officers with less restrictions than the concealed carry permits. The Glock guys were told to bring their guns in so the Glock armorer could tear them down and inspect them. One of the guys asked where my gun was and I said in the truck. Asked him then how many PDs had a Walther Armorer... ;) Carried it on duty from 1993 till 2008 when I retired and never had to fix or repair, replace anything. All it does is shoot. The Armorer has a whole box of new parts for the Glocks and he's always fixing something. They are now allowing the new Smith M&P also so that should be an improvement. At least from what I hear they're not having issues. Time will tell though if they got it right. Still haven't shot one but came close a couple of times to owning one but each time didn't fool with it.

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Re: S&W Performance Center 929

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Just watched both of his videos. I do believe he is the ultimate Toys r Us guy... He'd give Pagosawingnut a run for the money on 'stuff'. Will say that Pagosa's toy store is organized much much better....

Wonder how much he practiced that shot before he video taped them. I know he's good but to do that on the first two shots would be incredible. Nice to see him on the S&W sideline.

What is the craze for a 8 shot 9mm revolver? It's big and bulky so what is the appeal? I thought the lure today was toward the almighty 45 ACP in everything that moved. As I say I'm completely out of that world so I'm curious what the deal is.

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Re: S&W Performance Center 929

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The 9mm revolver is a specialty gun for competing in revolver only speed shooting events with stages that require reloads, for that purpose it has several advantages.

First the 9mm is short, so ejecting the moon clip is done with more authority, therefore faster, because the empty cases clear the cylinder well before the end of the ejector rod stroke. There is little chance of one case mouth failing to clear and fouling the smoothness of the reload.

Second, it holds 8 instead of 5,6,or 7 and in some stages that extra shot or two saves you a reload.

Third, it is a minor caliber so falls under minor caliber scoring rules, if you are going to shoot minor caliber you might as well shoot powder puff loads and the smaller case volume of the 9mm does that better than the larger case volume of the .38 special providing more consistent ignition with small charge weights. I'm shooting 3.6 grains of W231 behind that 147 grain Hornady XTP which is only about 875 fps.

The N frame is a big gun, but the grip is identical to the K and L frame so from an ergonomics standpoint there is no disadvantage, the advantage is that it can hold a larger diameter cylinder which gets you to 8 shots. The cylinder is Titanium so that it takes less energy to rotate than a steel cylinder, it is about the same weight as a K frame 6 shot .38/.357 in the same barrel profile. Also, as I'm sure you are aware, the trigger components are identical for all three frame sizes, so the trigger control is also the same.

Since this is a competition gun, the N frame also plays to the advantage because of the additional weight of the frame offsets the loss of weight due to the titanium cylinder, making recoil control about the same as a K frame steel gun. It is also compensated which is hardly needed for comfort, the 9mm is a pussy cat in this gun, but it does improve speed, which is the name of the game.

A distinct disadvantage of most 9mm revolvers is that they use .38/357 barrels which are .357" and 9mm bullets are .355" they don't shoot at top accuracy. The 929 uses a custom broach cut .355" match barrel and that is the main reason it shoots so well, it is the best barrel you can get on any S&W pistol. However I do have pistols that are more accurate. My Less Baer National Match .45 ACP 1911 will shoot 1.5" at 50 yards and just one hole at 25 yards. Also my Marvel upper on the same frame will shoot .75" at 50 yards. Those are my Bullseye competition guns. Of course they also cost more than twice as much as this S&W 929.

I've shot the S&W M&P, my brother-in-law has one in 9mm and it shoots pretty good. We had a family camping weekend a while back and he brought it along with a couple thousand rounds and let my sons and nephews and nieces shoot it all they wanted. Just plinking coke cans and such. Everyone shot it better than the other pistols we had along with us and it had no malfunctions. I didn't shoot it on paper, but I could hit a coke can at 25 yards without fail, easily with Walmart ball ammo of mixed variety. I was pretty impressed for a $400 gun, didn't care for the way it looked, but liked the way it handled.

I too was a fan of the Python and Diamondbacks, my personal carry sidearm for many years was a 2 1/2" Diamondback .38 SPL. It was a great gun and unbelievably accurate for such a short rig. I killed many rabbits, squirrels, and grouse with it, even one bull moose. But as I began to learn how to shoot a revolver in double action mode, I lost interest in the Colts. They cannot keep up with the trigger return speed and as I gained speed ability, it is inevitable, I would outrun the Colt trigger and lock the action up. That is when I moved over to the S&W revolvers. To be honest I don't like S&W as well as the Colts with their craftsmanship and raw beauty, but I can shoot the S&W much faster.
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Re: S&W Performance Center 929

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Thanks Robert. Lots of information there that I've never heard of. Had no idea that handgun competition had become that specialized. Last time I looked into it was the days of the PC cop guns in the 70s. I wasn't good enough nor had the time or the money to play the game and moved on. Some of those guys could flat out shoot and I figured with my skill level being where it was it would take me too many years to even try to catch up with them and even then there was definitely no guarantee that I ever could anyway. Something about knowing your limitations...lol

Your experience with the M&P is what I hear from the guys. Seems it's really designed well so the average person can shoot it accurately. Hearing that kids were shooting it without malfunctions is even better. The one issue I saw with the Glocks was anyone with a weak wrist, kid or female, usually would limp wrist it and it would jam almost 100% of the time. Some of the gunsmiths would cut the recoil spring down but Glock didn’t want that done since it would damage the frame. S&W evidently figured it out where they function without jamming. Don’t know if Glock ever got that figured out or not. Over the years the range officers would tell me that a lot of their cadets had never handled a handgun till they went to the academy. That helped Glock dominate the LE market for a number of years. Almost anyone could become proficient with one in short order. Nice to see that the S&W team put it together in an affordable package that works.

When I hit the street in 73 I carried that nickel Python and compared to most at the time was pretty good with it. Luckily I never had to find out if it was good enough or not. You mentioned the aesthetics of the M&P not being very appealing. I agree but it's a tool not a precision one like the ones we normally would want to carry. They had to be cheap (hate that term) to keep the budget managers happy who haven't a clue in most cases and could care less if the officer lives or dies. It's all about the almighty dollar to them. Will say not all of them, but the majority are heartless fuzzy bunnies who would steal from their kids, parents, friends, etc. :roll: Just glad that S&W was able to get it done and get back in the LE business.

Having owned a number of Pythons I sure can't see what makes them as high as they are. Yes they were accurate but so are the big S&Ws and I assume Rugers, etc. I originally wanted a Stainless Python but by the time they came out felt my money could be spent better on something else. I did find that once my hands got used to the S&Ws I had a hard time shooting the Pythons. The hand was now trained for the S&W and there was no going back. Agree that the action on the S&W was far better speed wise than the Colts. The hammer throw on the Colt Trooper (think that's the one) was horrendous. You had to cock it for what seemed forever. That gun should have been left on the drawing board.

Had never thought about all the Smiths sharing the same actions but the sure did. Another good move by S&W to KISS and people wouldn’t have to learn a different action/feel because they changed to a different model. Somebody was thinking back then.

This thread sure brought back lots of memories.

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